who gave ronald reagan the line, i won't exploit my opponents in experience. >> i'm sure a lot of people are whispering in donald trump's here and hillary clinton's ear, but i think donald trump's challenge in this debate is not how he talks about any news event, but it's whether he can appear long last presidential to americans he's a safe bet. >> frank rooney, always a pleasure. >> thanks. >> thank you so much, i appreciate it. >> announcer: this is cnn breaking news. it is the top of the hour and all eyes are on the city of charlotte tonight on a third night of protests over a fatal police shooting. this is cnn tonight, i'm don lemon. as you can see, our reporters are getting ready to report from the ground. there's bryan todd. we'll get to him in just moments. the mayor ordering a midnight curfew in hopes of keeping her city calm, but the protests over the fatal police shooting of keith lamont scott show no signs of ending right now and a curfew in less than an hour, just about

an hour from now, so why don't we get straight to cnn's bryan todd who has been covering this for us all evening, he's on the ground there, he's been walking in the middle of the protestors. what's happening now, bryan? >> reporter: don, this crowd of hundreds of protestors, just joined a smaller crowd of pro protesters and came up to college street and took a knee insymbolism. it was quite a scene now they're up and on the move again. i was told a moment ago by one of the protesters a lot of these people were by the interstate, near it where ed lavenderas where they've had some confrontation with the police. some of them were. and we've got some people taking a knee again over here. check out the visual that you've got here. i'm not sure what they're saying exactly. let me see if i can move in here with my microphone a second,

don. >> we're making a statement around the world. everybody take a knee. listen, [ inaudible ] [ chanting ] my brother, my brother, hello. holed up, my brother. and it's not going to start tonight or tomorrow. >> reporter: don what i can tell you also is this man is delivering his message to hundreds of people taking a we did in front of him. i can look around and the police presence is very light so far. a couple other officers have moved into the intersection. right now we've got mostly bicycle policemen, kind of ringing this crowd here, some national guardsmen to my left, not many of them, but while this big gathering is happening at

the corner of college and trade streets, the police are hanging back and letting them deliver their message. >> i want you to stand by, bryan. again, as bryan has been reporting here, these protestors are taking a knee like the several professional athletes have been doing so after colin kaepernick did it. of course colin kaepernick on the cover now, of a major magazine which will be released sometime this week. there's the magazine, time magazine, and he's taking a knee, rather than standing for the national anthem. he had a peaceful protest. these protestors tonight are peaceful and haven't been peaceful every single night. as we know last night someone was killed by gunshot and has been said that one of the protestors shot another protestors, and then the night before more than a dozen police officers were injured in scrimmages there on the streets of charlotte. again, our bryan todd is out on the street. he has been reporting now, and i

want to get to cnn's ed lavendera, and i just. to read to you as we see these -- let's listen in before we get to ed. >> let me get the microphone. all right, now you know, we're tired of this [ bleep ] right now, right? i love peace, right? but guess what, we have only been beat down by a system that don't care about us. why should we riot? why is it they always have to come pick you've the national guard ready to shoot and kill us? they're ready to kill us and shoot us. now, if you noticed, that police chief -- >> okay. here's what you can obviously summize what surmise from listening, the treatment by police, and also for the shooting of this man two

days ago, in charlotte, they said the national guard is there and they believe the national guard is there in his estimation, they said to kill them. the national guard is there to keep watch and to keep the streets safe and to keep them safe, as well. but here's what's hatchinppenin less than an hour, there has been a curfew that has been signed enacting a mandatory customrfew in the city, signed jennifer roberts and mayor said this is going to be in effect each day until the end of the state of emergency is declared or the official proclamation is revoked. it's also interesting if you hear the language you're hearing, i've been warning you this is what happens on the street when you have people who are upset and who are angry and you have this size of a crowd. we can't control their language, so if you're sensitive to that, i would suggest that you get folks out of the room, young people, as well. this is real life. this is what happens and that's how people speak. cnn's ed lavendera, got caught

up in the squirmish, was pushed. what are you witnessing now? >> reporter: don when we talked to you a little while ago, we were showing you dozens of riot police officers moving on to interstate 277, just across the interstate from the panthers football stadium. this is the line of officers that has cleared the bridge over the interstate. there is another line that has closed off the onramps on to that so all of those people that we showed you a short while ago has been pushed across the interstate that they fire what'd appeared to be pubrubber bullet. i did not see teargas deployed, although there was something in the air that made us cough and choke a little bit and banged on their batons and shields and the crowd ran back up on to the hills overlooking the interstate and getting off of that, and

really, the crowd has been sent in many different directions, kind of crowd is almost divided in half. one group ran up the embankment on the other side of the interstate, others came up this way. so i'm not exactly sure what is going to happen now to this march up march. a couple officers were emmoring the officers to keep moving. they're happy and content as the march keeps moving, it's when it slows down and congacongregate trouble erupts. some of the officers emploring the people to keep the march moving and these officers are content as long as that happens. we talked a little bit about approaching that midnight hour and how many of these people are going to voluntarily get off the streets or will they be forceable removed at that point, we just don't know. >> ed, let's go back through this. if you can take us through upon what'd, you have seen any -- shaking hands, let's listen in, stand by, ed.

>> so that was -- stand by, ed. that was several of the people who are out in the crowd shaking hands with the national guard, telling them thank you, and that's where our boris sanchez, if we can find him there. boris, what were we witnessing there? what's going on? >> reporter: so, don, back at the omni hotel there was a large crowd of people, they were gathered there and they were shouting slogans ask doind doin usual and started going further down this side of the street and on the way there, we saw several national guard people that were posted up outside the entrance to this building and we've seen them all across down. the people that walk by them, several of them stopped to give them handshakes and to say thank you for keeping our city safe and keeping things under control. it's something that we've seen throughout the night, these signs of respect between the more peaceful protestors and the

law enforcement officials out here. i heard somebody yell, we don't want to hug them, we don't love them. there's this division within the crowd and people that are demonstrating peacefully and hoping to keep the peace and a mutual respect for law enforcement. as we keep moving i want you to keep the earlier what i told you, don i heard from some people we have to get out of here at midnight and other people said they different know there was a curfew, and they have some awareness, but i'm not sure this crowd is going to disburse right at midnight. it looks like we're walking towards afternoon area there are some police officers. they just arrived and a small mobile vehicle, i can't tell if they're making a barrier, but it looks like they're going to get the crowd keep walking. they're chanting "hands up, don't shoot," and it is a

sizeable crowd, less consean straighted than last night, don. >> as we listen to them, boris, chanting "hands up, don't shoot," number one, you have witnessed any arrests and talk to us about the diversity of there crowd. it's not just african-americans it. appears to be a very diverse group. >> reporter: you're absolutely right. it is young, old, black, white, asian. this is a very diverse crowd. there are people that i heard that had very, very different viewpoints than what should happen in this investigation and with this demonstration today, but at the end of the day, they spoke about it peacefully. other people were not quite as peaceful. i've heard when, we last spoke

an hour or so ago, there were people making threats at us. so not thrilled that media is here, not thrilled that this situation has kind of unfolded in their community and they want to voice their unhappiness and their distrust. again, not just with police, but with the media, as well. so as we keep walking, in a westerly direction in front of us there are a group of police officers on bicycles and they've kind of been with this crowd since we left that intersection at the omni hotel. it looks like a railroad sign behind that. we're not really sure where they're going to go after this, but they're stopping and chanting again. >> all right, boris, i want you to stand by. bryan, stand by, as well as our

ed lavendera, i want to put them on the screen, and show my panelists, bakari sellers, demetri sellers, and those are my law enforcement and political experts, we're going to discuss what's going on, and what happens after this curfew goes into effect at midnight. bakari sellers is there on the streets. we'll be back after this very quick break. road. healthy, free, the world before me, the long brown path before me leading wherever i choose. the east and the west are mine. the north and the south are mine. all seems beautiful to me.

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we're back with our breaking news as we look at these aerial shots, perotestors on the strees less than 45 minutes away from a curfew, in the third night of protests over a fatal shooting. former member of the south carolina house of representatives, and demetri roberts, former police officer, and cedric alexander and jeff rode, of the st. louis police officers association. and neil franklin is with me here, as well, former maryland state police officer.

so, jeff, what are your impressions of tonight? how are police handling the protests? >> the protests look pretty calm to me, don, from what we've seen on the video in your network. i will say these protestors do not look like they're planning on going home at midnight. they look like they're here to stay. when we had curfews in ferguson, you could see the crowd dissipate when you're getting close to the curfew hour. >> so then what happens next, cedric, if these people don't get off the streets? >> well, that's going to be interesting to see. i would imagine if they don't leave at 12:00 or shortly thereafter, maybe charlotte will begin to move in and help to disburse them as gingerly as they can, but i think we have to take into account, if it hits midnight and there's indication that they are leaving the area,

then you continue to let them leave the area and try not to provoke a situation that would be totally unnecessary. >> might neil franklin, the national guard be more aggressive than the charlotte police? >> i don't think so. what we saw in baltimore with the national guard is they were pretty much holding territory. they weren't very active at all in moving the crowd, engaging the crowd. it was the police department. so when the curfew time arrived in baltimore, the police department game the people somewhat of a grace period. as long as they were moving and appeared to be leaving the areas, the police allowed them to do that and we ended up with way couple pockets here and there where people just refused leave the area and arrests were made want made and i think that's what we'll see tonight. >> bakari sellers do you get a sense these protestors are going

to defy or abide by it? >> i don't think it's defying the curfewity al at all. i was able to talk to a bunch of people and i had some friends and chaplains, and i think many of them don't know there's curfew. you don't have the police blaring bull horns there's curfew. the mayor installed a curfew at 9:25. many protestors are not watching the news andeck whi checking so media like that. not only has this community been held and you have another black person who was killed and we don't know the full story behind that, they're being told by leaders from governor mccrory total mayor of charlotte. this is going to be for you demetri. it's fairly ambiguous, saying you can't really tell frat

videotape, whether mr. scott was carrying a gun. there's also -- do we have this picture -- there's also a picture that we are told is the gun police have found there it is circled in red and also the police chief coming out tonight saying while the video is not clear, he's also saying they believe they have enough evidence, which he can't discuss, that confirms the original assessment in the situation. here it is speaking earlier on another network, listen. >> there's a lot of other evidence that gives us a great deal of support and comfort t y they -- a version that you heard from before, is sported by the evidence that all the statements were able to gather, and the

totality leading to believe that version is still very much accurate. >> he's confident that the original version is accurate despite the video being ambiguous. >> an initial assessment does not necessarily mean there wasn't wrong that happened. what he's implying is that, based on the officer's report, based on the initial investigation, that the facts remained steady but that doesn't takeaway from the fact there may be a point here, where the officer acted outside of or beyond his use of force in that situation. >> the family releasing a statement saying they spoke with their attorney moments ago saying the family of keith lamont scott, after watching two police videos of the shooting by charlotte police officers said they couldn't say what was in

his hands when he was killed. it is impossible to discern from his hands -- to discern from the video what if anything mr. scott is holding in his hands. the family wants police to release the video to the public and the family says the video shows them acting calmly, not aggressively. mr. scott's hands were by his side and he was slowly walking backwards. so bakari sellers -- go ahead, demetri. >> i was going to say, i can tell you, don, in the absence of a weapon, particularly being pointed at that officer, they're going to be hard pressed to justify a shooting like this. i mean, we're min a country the right to carry a weapon is legal, concealed or unconcealed, so the fact there's weapon present, takes away from the use

of force model and the further narrative we need to be talking about and that is how these situations have boiled to this point, and how they've gotten to the level where people are getting killed on the other side of police actions. >> i did ask the attorney -- -for the scott family if he was licensed to carry, he said he did not know at this poithat. >> who is saying that's crazy? >> we don't know what we don't know yet. we need to wait for more evidence, but the -- to say that officers had to wait until the guy pointed the gun at him, if they're telling him to drop that gun, that he's flourishing in the middle of that apartment complex, then that is was justifiable for deadly force. i mean, we don't know any of that and all this raw speculation doesn't do much good other than to gin up that crowd that needs to go home tonight.

>> hey, don -- >> go ahead, cedric. >> that's my point. that's my point, that if things are unclear, there's obviously some ambiguity there that's going to cause folks to question things. this is why they need to release the video, this is why they need to have conversations with the public around the proper policies that are -- that lead to a level of use of force, that has left this gentleman dead. i understand the policies that go into using deadly force in situations where people have weapons. i had to pull my weapon all the time working in englewood. my point is very simple. when you have sketchy information and things that are unclear, this is pretty clear-cut when you have somebody dead. it should be, and that's why these folks should be releasing the video and we have a countdown happening until october first, when that law changes in north carolina pitcher. >> all right. >> that video needs to be released now and it needs to be further discussed.

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this is breaking news tonight on cnn as we look at these live pictures and as a midnight curfew fast approaches the city of charlotte in the amidst of a curfew on the third night of protestors. so donald trump commented tonight on what is going on in chlotte. he's calling for violence there to stop.

listen. >> the rioting i o streets is a threat to all peaceful citizens and it must be ended and ended now. the main victims of these violent demonstrations are law abiding african-americans in these communities and only want to raise their children in safety and peace and with a good education. that's what they want. and we're going to give that to them. to all citizens, in all of our inner city asks all across the country, i say these words to you tonight, i am with you and i will fight for you, i promise. >> so he's giving those words this evening and then also, mark, we're hearing that he may head to charlotte after monday

night's debate. what do you make of this? >> clearly trying to capitalize politically, he did this in louisiana, as well, when they had the terrible flooding and thought he could score some points and i guess perhaps he did a ltle bit. but when donald trumps something like that as he just did, in many wayse's absolutely right but then he goes on to say something else, and we talked about this last night, don, he went on to say about hillary clinton, that hillary clinton supports tse who are peddling the narrative that police are ra racist and is extending his hand to every mayor in order to make their city safer. in one breath he'say sing listen we need to stop what's going on. in the second breath he's then going on and really politicizing it and saying his opponen is basically playing to those who are against the police. >> david gregory, i want you to weigh in, but if you could pause for for a moment, i want to get to boris sanchez. folks are laying on the ground. boris, talk to me, what's going

on? >> reporter: hey, don, so they came around a corner and stopped at the police station. again there's much fewer people that wer here yesterday, but there are still quite a few people and have decided to lay down on the ground and you can see all around, one guy was yelling lay down like you just got shot and everybody did the same, so, we're looking now to see how sizeable this crowd is. it looks like there's maybe about 7or 80 people. om where things really got t crazy and people started setting fires. i want to show you down the street, there are two vans over there and those are two vans th belong to the charlotte fire department. from what w can tell, they're being escorted by police and they're coming closer this way walking -- or rather driving with the walking crowd. they appear to be full of law enforcement officers so they're preparing to move into this area right now. from the last like few minutes we were walking, it seemedike thin had calmed down. there was no more chanting, the

crowd had mostly calmed dowand they were walking separately. they weren't walking in unison. when they got to the police depament, as you can see behind me, they walked up to t steps, and several people were holding up signs, and the crowd ground, we're going to keep the watching this and let you know exactly how it unfolds as police get closer and close expert crowd is starting to grow. i can see a lot more people in the distance. it looks like people got word this was happening or just saw other people walking in this direction, don. >> it doesn't look like they're planning to go home, at least at this juncture with less than 30 minutes left before the curfew. i want to get back to you, as it is warranted. david gregory, this particular community is in a battlround state and the blackote will be key there. how is this going to effect that? >> this is an opportuni politically, for both candidates to try to show some presidential leadership, t take on a very

difficult, tense, anxious topic of the relationship that goes beyond just pure race relations. but the relationship between the african-american community and the police when we've seen this epidemic violence against african-americans in communities perpetrator straighted perpetrated by poli.so i think from donald trump, is a little bit more political, he's going to reach out to mayors if he goes there, a little bit more disclined than we've seen. hillary clinton has a similar opportunity. the problems that we're covering here be not going to be solved at the presidential level. this really is community-type work but the kind of message, the kind of tone they set is important. and as a political matter, donald trump is not going into this tnking he's going to win the african-american vote, that's not going to happen. i mean, he's losing abysmally. most republicans do. but as a political matter, the

more he can get into this topic, have something to say about it, i think he believes he might be able to depress turnoutor her. >> talking about depressing the turnout -- >> for her, capitalizing on the fact there's lack of her candidacy at the moment in the black community in a lot of these battleground stat. this is a dynamic story and a dynamic situation. i'm sure this will come up perhaps as early as the monday debate and these are moments that are unforeseen where you can weigh in, in a way to try to constructive and people take your measure based on how you react. >> and how do yo react to this, because this is what mike pence told reporters today, that he and donald trump believe there is too muchmphasis on law enforcement that is something almost no black peopleould age on, and yet reaching out to african-americans. >> right. and you know last -- very quickly, you and i were here late last night and we were going over poll numbers, of all things to talk about, but from

pew this summer, that showed african-americs and kcaucasia caucasian-americans had a very different outlook on their own personal different outlook saying what their future is here in the united states and quite frankly we saw that in that same peep hole between americrepuica and democrats. there is differences in perceptions of constitutional bias. you know, to be an african-american inhis country, a white person in this country, and your perception of the police, this is filtering its way into the national politics and there's going to be a lot of agreemedisagreement. these are hard issues and they're going to be solved at the community level with local leaders and if you are an asimpoa aspirant for the white house, you use it to try to debate in a constructive way, that's all they can try to do at this point, as well as those pence comments, you're also driving out your constituents. >> you very well know this is

not solved at the presidential campaign trail. we'll be back with our breaking news, a third night of protests in charlotte as this curfew approaches, by the way. using 60,000 points from my chase ink card i bought all the fruit... veggies... and herbs needed to create a pop-up pick-your-own juice bar in the middle of the city, so now everyone knows... we have some of the freshest juice in town. see what the power of points can do for your business. learn more at chase.com/ink

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a curfew fast approaching b 20 minutes away. third night of protests, is a mandatory curfew that was implemented by the mayor of charlotte. meanwhile, tulsa involved in its own controversies around police shootings. it remains calm as a district attorney there charges police officer betty shelby with manslaughter in the first-degree. manslaughter in the first degree. she fatally shot 40-year-old terence crutcher after citizen s his suv stopped on a roadway, and we have the president of north carolina naacp, and mark lewis of we the people of oklahoma. thank you for staying with us and helping us cover the breaking news. first i want to get your reaction to the news to the officer who shot terrenence crutcher has been charged with first-degree manslaughter.

>> it was really good. we worked hard to make sure the policies were open, transparency was open, and the da asked us to trust him and the system has worked for us. >> we saw these in charlotte last night. the riots. tulsa really had a vigil, remain peaceful, how did you keep your city from boiling over? >> right. well, i mean, it's a lot of work. i mean, we have a lot of pastors that have come together. we have a lot of -- we emphasized peace, that was what we kept doing, rallies we kept having, let them know this is a non-violent rally, a non-violent protest and no disruptions will be tolerated. we disbursed with in our crowd. we made sure our crowd did not have just all single types of minorities in those areas. we made sure everything was

divided. and we made sure everything we did went forth the message and we did not want anything to convolute the message. >> reverend barber, you and i were here through much of the evening, discussing this into the wee hours as we watched these protests divolve into rion the thesriots. what is different? >> 99%st protests have been non-violent and about justice. there were clergy on the ground and i met with them, identifiable people like reverend robin tanner and reverend dr. weary and sadler and jewish rabbis, and our own president, coreen mack. you have a case where a person was indicted for the john fan

far re jonathan forrell case, and in charlotte, you've had the starling, there is so much distrust, we don't know exactly what's going on, so people are calling for transparency, the tapes, the families now calling for them, we're calling for federal investigation. we now know that officers had -- some of the officers had their body cameras turned off and that is serious concern. in fact, the ministers have said the people should be fired. but you have to say that 99.9% of the people involved in protest protests, not to the point they are calm because there is a lot of distrust, and they have an amendment right to challenge what is going on. it's black and white people, latinos, jews and christians who are out there engaged in non-violent protests. >> mark, in tulsa, we saw the

video of the shooting. it was released, everyone could see for themselves, what happened, even though people still disagree about what happened. >> right. >> does that teach of transparency help matters because in north carolina even the governor is saying, hey, listen, this should not be released to the public. >> well, yeah, any time you have a release of a video, you're basically saying that, hey, we are being transparent. and one thing that our chief of police did, he released the video monday, this early monday, and, and pretty much he prepared us that it doesn't look good and we had transparency. that's what we kept going on with was transparency and accountability. when he released the video we saw for ourselves and we had a lot of questions, but they had a per press conference and he asked us to trust him. i met with the chief of police and he assured to us he's on top of it and he's affected by those

things. so transparency is definitely the key to solving a lot of problems. >> okay. so listen, let's talk some politics here because we're just a couple days from the first debate, and of course within 40 some-odd days we're going to have an actual presidential election here and there -- both candidates are making their play for the african-american community. i want to ask you about what donald trump said last night, and then we'll play it and then we'll talk about it. >> i will stop the drugs from flowing into our country and poisoning our youth and many other people. and if you're not aware, drugs are a very, very big factor in what you're watching on television at night. >> reverend, i said that wrong. heed that today about the actions that happened last night. we did see some out --out-of co

behavior. >> there were a couple dozen persons who engaged in the pro v vocateurs. he's been hater as presidential candidate, what he's saying is ridiculous. you have black and white people here together, he's creating a false narrative, and the narrative basically says -- and he's really not speaking to black people. he's speaking to persons who want to vote for them, he's saying black people won't let me help them for and black people are to blake for tme for the pr and there's an old southern strategy that sounds like george walla wallace, and nixon and ronald reagan. this man is talking about healthcare, and for the proliferation of guns and talking about taking money out of public schools and giving it to private entities. he's supported voter suppression and said that the elections were fraudulent and we should have the very voter suppression the

court it is said was unconstitutional and he's been a divider, he's run a campaign of hate and division and now he attempts to using a teleprompter that he can be the author and deliverer of peace and calm. it is just fabricating. >> reverend barber and mark lewis, thank you, gentlemen, i appreciate it. much more to come on our breaki breaking news, a third night of protest in the city of charlotte. no one way of driving on each and every road. but there is one car that can conquer them all. the mercedes-benz c-class. five driving modes let you customize the steering, shift points, and suspension to fit the mood you're in... and the road you're on. the 2016 c-class. lease the c300 for $369 a month at your local mercedes-benz dealer.

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so and just under ten minutes a curfew, mandatory curfew will go into effect in charlotte. still you have hundreds of people out on the streets, protesting. the mayor has put this, signed this order for this mandatory curfew. but it does not appear, unless these people live very near, they're going to make their way home and be off the streets by midnight. this is a third night of protests there. last night turned violent. tonight not turned violent. after the fatal shooting of keith lamont scott. talk about the legal and police

angles. legal analyst and attorney and civil rights act visit. jeffrey, in the case of the shooting in charlotte are eyewitnesss and family members say one thing and others say another. how can this be solved? >> video will be released athe some point and has to be an vaesks. there's a lot not gone, how many witnesses were there, what is ballistics show. all of the investigating that needs to be done in a normal case has to be done here. ultimately the facts matter. and i think they should release the video now but they certainly should continue doing the investigation, and then we'll know more about how this killing took place. >> so the scott family, as well as mayor and other officials,

and -- i think i'll pose this to both of you, viewed video tape there and no definitive visual evidence as to whether he was holding or pointing a gun at the time of the the shooting but the police chief was on fox and said this. >> there's a lot of other evidence that gives us a great deal of support and comfort that, that the version that you heard from us before is supported by the evidence and all the statements we were able to gather. totality of the circumstances leads me to believe that version is still very much accurate. >> can't talk specifically about the evidence but the evidence we don't know about, says that the original version of the police officers is accurate. >> that's the problem with the

statement we keep hearing from the police chief. wants community to trust him and this is a community with zero trust in the police, not just because of the shoot kwg keith lamont scott but because of the history of this police department and residents of charlotte. 22-year-old african-american man shot and killed by the police, a hung jury, can't expect the community to just trust you. i think he's making a huge mistake and if they want to end the protest or at least the part that's become violent, has to come forward with more information. we have, the public doesn't have. until the public feels like there is information provided and transparency and accountability, we're not going to see any of this civil unrest happening in the city, an end to it. >> can i give you an example --

>> go ahead. >> story i covered a long time ago, am did you abdullah was shot in the bronx, theres a spingsteen song about it now. there was a lot of suspicion and anger in new york about his death and there was trial of the four police officers involved. moved up to albany but televised and everybody got to see the evidence in the case and it was actually pretty favorable towards the four officers who were acquitted. but because everyone got to see the evidence and the officers' testimony and fullness and story there was not a lot of outrage in new york and certainly no civil disobedience after the

verdict in that case. because i think people are intelligent. if you give them facts, reasons and full story, and the full story justifies what the police did, they'll believe you. the problem here is that the charlotte police department is saying we were fine, trust us, we've seen the evidence but you can't. no one is going to believe that. >> let's talk about the gun. right? this apparent or alleged gun he's said to have had. family says it was a book. police officers are saying, obviously heard the chief there saying it appears that their initial story was accurate, brandishing a gun in some way. this picture is believed to be the gun that he was carrying, again i should say alleged to be, because not been established 100% he was carrying a gun. when you look at this, it's open carry state. you look at circumstances

surrounding this, asked attorney earlier if he had a license to carry and he didn't know at this time. how does it play out? >> gun is going to be really important. first of all we had family disputing that keith scott had a gun. said he had a book in his hand and that was pattern to sit in car and read a book. don't know anything about the gun, the family nor the public believes a gun is involved so questions have to be answered about the ballistics on the gun. is it a gun that belonged to scott, is it a gun he had, did he get out of the car and fail to follow the commands of the police officer? the mere fact he had a gun in open carry state is not enough to justify the shooting. we need to know what did he do with the gun? do anything to cause the police officer to reasonably believe his life or others in the

vicinity were in danger. that's not been answered and pivotal to be answered to determine whether it is justified as police chief continues to state. >> all hinges on the video tape if there was a gun. everything that we know now. >> i wouldn't say everything. these video tapes not always settling all the questions. what you need to do is a thorough investigation. obviously the video tape is a big part but not only. how many witnesses were there? who saw it? what is ballistics evidence? how far away was the officer when the shooting took place? were there other security cameras in the area? we live in a time with security cameras everywhere. you have to do a full thorough investigation before you can draw any conclusions. but when you do have something as clear as a video tape of the

incident, to let some people see it and make representations about it, that the public is definitely not going to believe, that is no way to quiet people's concerns. >> and to your point earlier, did you want to say something areva? >> just wanted to say it doesn't seem like charlotte police department learned anything from what happened in ferguson, everything we witnessed in ferguson about the lack of transparency seems to be playing out in charlotte. it's not surprising that the community is outraged. and it's not surprising we see the protests, just doesn't seem like we've made progress since ferguson looking at charlotte. >> and again, this may not have happened, if had seen the video, whether it shows him brandishing a gun or book or what have you, may not have happened because

people at least may have seen for themselves exactly what went on. thank you jeffrey and areva. >> thanks don. >> here we go. it is indeed right now midnight, eastern time, in the city of charlotte obviously there is a curfew taking effect right now and still people on the street. this is "cnn tonight" i'm don lemon. mayor of charlottes had ordered a curfew in hope of keeping the city calm in the wake of three nights of protests in the fatal police shooting of keith lamont scott. we're watching now to see what happens, seeing it unfold as you are. shots from the helicopter there, no sound but still see people on the streets. saw m